Hello... I'm hoping someone can give some advice on how to help my daughter. She is 8 yrs old and REALLY struggling in math. We've been working through Level A for over a year now and just finished lesson 50 today. Well, she did the worksheet for lesson 50 after about 20 min working on adding 10's with me using the abacus and a white board and these are some of the answers she came up with: 50+50=50, 40+20=42, 70+20=80, 40+10=45. (I know it seems she doesn't know how to use the abacus, but she can enter any quantity I ask for and tell me the name of quantities I enter so I know she does.) On the previous lesson, we counted out (the math way of course) the $2 in dimes 3 times. When asked how many dimes in $1 - correctly said 10. When asked how many dimes in $2 - said 10-ten. So we counted again, and again, used the abacus and had her enter ten, 2-ten, and 10-ten and she still didn't get it. Her 4 yr old brother called out the correct answer from another room where he was playing a computer game and she didn't know how he got it!!! We go over the concepts so many times that he can answer just about any question I ask her without touching a single manipulative simply from hearing it so much. I'm at my wits end on how to help her understand anything math related!

We started when she was 5 with Saxon K and math was her favorite subject. Saxon 1 drove her to tears so we switched to Singapore which was worse. Now we've been in Level A since about Jan 2008, but she doesn't seem to be making any progress. She doesn't like math anymore, except for the games (but they don't seem to help her retain the info either) so I'm tempted to try another switch to Math-U-See on the chance that I just haven't found the method in which she learns yet, but I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks!

Hello!

Thank you so much for the message! We are sad to hear you are a frustrated mom with a struggling daughter! That is no fun at all!!!

First of all, compliments to you when encouraging her to use the AL Abacus. Encourage her to keep using it. Now as far as the suggestion with the written and spoken versions of the numbers. It sounds like we are a losing something in the translation, this is not your fault or hers, just an area for exploration.

I spoke with Dr Cotter on some suggestions or other ways to tackle the issues and make math her favorite subject again!!! :) After she enters a number on the AL Abacus, ask her to form it with the place value cards. Another spin is to form the number with the place value cards first and then enter the quantity on the AL Abacus. This way she is doing the same thing but each is taking a different spin, this way to she sees herself building and breaking apart the numbers!

Now when she is going the addition problems, such as 50 + 50 and comes up with 50. Go ahead and pose the question to her....You are telling me 5-ten and 5-ten more is still 5-ten? This way it will make her think about it in a different light! Then do the problem again with her and manipulatives, this is a wonderful tool for reinforcement!

Another suggestion is to have her make up simple story problems for some extra help! If necessary give her numbers to include in the story, such as "Can you make up a problem using 4-ten and 2? Encourage her to use all the manipulatives she would like. Then make sure she records the equation on paper to give her a little reinforcement of the concepts she is learning.

Now if her younger brother is causing any problems or possibly creating a frustration in her learning process, he should be aware that when you are doing math with her, he is not to answer. This could be causing a distraction for her and maybe a barrier for her.

A note about switching to another program again in my honest opinion would just lose time and confidence. My hope is that we try some different strategies and hopefully turn things around!

As always bring up items that you were doing in a lesson to everyday activities as they apply. This helps her understand how math works in the world also!

I am excited to hear from you when your story goes from "struggling learner-Frustrated mom" to "accelerated learner and very satisfied mom!"

Keep us posted on your results and keep the positive attitude! :) You and she can do this! :) And we are here to help!

Make it a great day!
Cassie :)

Thanks for the quick reply! All the things you're suggesting we're doing. I have her build the numbers she enters, enter the numbers we build, add more on the abacus and then build the new number. We had just spent the 20 min before she did that worksheet doing that exact same thing. I had her build her answers, write the equation, fill in the part/whole circle, etc. before even attempting the worksheet. I ask her if her answers make sense, to read her equation and listen to what she is saying, but nothing seems to help. She'll understand for that day, but when we come back to the same concept it's like starting all over. We've been doing this for soooo long it's getting very discouraging. How long "should" it take for her to actually get it? Are there different things I could be doing besides what you mentioned? I know every child is different, but she is 8 years old and still having trouble with Level A. I'm so glad I didn't go directly to Level B like the online placement test advised over a year ago based on her age and having already begun doing simple math. I mean, when counting by 2's WITH the abacus, she will have 6 beads, enter 2 more and look at it and say "7". I tell her to look again and ask if she sees 7 and she says, "no, 8" but will still get to 1-ten 6 and move over 2 more beads and say "1-ten 7". It's not just from 6 to 8 that's the problem, it's so random where she messes up.

One other thing I've noticed and forgot to mention... she almost never discovers the concepts/patterns on her own. We do the examples, I make up more examples, give her plenty of time to think (up to 15 minutes or more per question if she's actively working and not daydreaming) and encourage her to use whatever tools she wishes to help (we also have weighted numbers, cuisenaire rods, the math balance and more besides), but she still has no clue. She has also been diagnosed with fairly extensive visual tracking problems that we're finding difficult to correct, so I'm beginning to wonder if she's even seeing the beads on the abacus in the correct order consistantly, or if she's often visually skipping around and can't "see" the correct quantity. Could that be causing some of our problems? I guess that's the main reason I'm considering switching to another program. What good is the colored pattern of the beads if when she looks at a row, she sees the yellow beads sandwiched between the blue ones because her eyes jumped to the end of the row or the row below and back?

Again, I thank you for what you suggested, but is there more that I haven't done yet? I personally love math and have gone through Calculus 2 in college so I really want her to enjoy math, too!

It seems like you have tried a variety of ways to help your daughter out. I just wanted to let you know what happened to us when my daughter was struggling with (what I thought to be) very simple concepts in Level A. I tried taking it slower, playing more games, and explaining it in a different way, but nothing seemed to help. We ended up just putting things away for a month. After our extended break things just seemed to click and she has been zooming along ever since. I think that she had hit a developmental "road block". The break seemed to take the pressure off of the both of us as I was starting to get frustrated in thinking that she just wasn't trying. When we began again we talked about how we were going to figure things out together and we started out with games and basic basic basic stuff. That way I was sure that she had her confidence back before we started on other things.

I'm not sure if this will help you or not, but I know that we still hit occasional blocks where we take a day or so off and go to something she is more comfortable with and once we come back it seems that things have "settled" in her brain and everything just comes together.

You mentioned that she has visual processing problems. While I don't have experience with it I have heard that vision therapy has worked wonders with in helping others with the same difficulty.

I know that this can be a frustrating time. I wish you the best!

Hello!

Sorry for the delay in answering! We had the holiday weekend and we also had some website troubles so I am just getting caught up on some messages! :)

Thank you so much for your message. Also thank you to Shannon for replying! She sounds like she has had a similar situation and its always best to hear from someone who has traveled that road before! :)

Talking to Dr Cotter she suggested that in this situation having a complete evaluation done with your daughter and that if its a visual issue, see a developmental optometrist. That will give you some specialized care.

As far as suggestions, what we have suggested has been used. As you and I both stated, each child is unique as is the learning style. No one knows your child better than you!

I would still guide away from switching programs considering it will delay the necessary help that your daughter needs.

Take a deep breath! We know you can do this and please let us know how else we can help!

Cassie :)

Thanks, Shannon, for responding. It does feel good to know that others have struggled, too. I know that sometimes breaks are definately what's needed to calm frazzled nerves for both of us and would certainly be willing to put things away for a break... but we just had about a month off for moving from one neighborhood to another. I thought the break would have done us some good and did start back in with the games to find us still stuck.

Cassie - I've looked longingly at DO's, but sadly our insurance doesn't cover Vision Therapy and we certainly can't afford it. Come October we might not have any insurance at all and then we won't even be getting her OT that's been such a help. She's had a psych eval and that is what prompted the OT eval in the first place. They diagnosed her with a Cognitive Disordor, NOS (whatever that means) and ADHD as well as finding the motor delays. Her Visual Perceptual Skills range from the 4 yr old level for Form Constancy to almost 6 yr level for Sequential Memory per her re-eval in April. Right now we're working at home through computer programs and workbooks to try and remediate her visual problems. I was just hoping that y'all would have some specific things I could do within the math program that hadn't already been tried or that I hadn't thought of in order to help me help her understand. But... on a good note, today she actually answered a word problem question correctly on the first try and gave a coherent explanation! Of course, she then proceeded to fill in the part/whole circle with 9 as the whole and 10 and 8 as the parts (the equation was 8+2=10) ... little steps I tell myself... little steps...

Thank you again for your message! Also happy to see it ended on a happy note! Baby steps...baby steps....

I understand the concern for Vision Therapy costs and the scare of insurance. With today's economy, we cannot depend on anything! I will be thinking of your family and hope all works out! :)

I just wanted to give you that option as I know of a family that it worked wonders for! :) There are a true testimony of a Vision Therapy success story.

Keep on moving! Keep us posted on the progress. We only hope the best for you and your daughter. We know both of you can do this! :)

Thank you again for contacting us!

Cassie

I just want to encourage you to pursue the visual tracking issue. I personally know of 3 children that have had the therapy and with great success. A 10 year old child that struggled with math and an 8th grader that struggled in many areas will tell you that therapy changed their life around. The 3rd child I know that did well in school but still had some eye tracking issues says that school is so much easier now. I know that therapy is not cheap, but if that is the problem, it might be well worth it. We ourselves are in the process of starting it with our 17 year old son. Wish we looked into this sooner.

I do understand the financial issues. Fortunately our insurance is covering about 2/3rds of it. That makes the decision much easier for us.