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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Place Value

Thank you for your posts. This is an interesting conversation. Yes you are correct in stating that the reason for naming numbers ten 1, 2ten 3 etc. is for quantity recognition. This way of naming numbers speaks to the patterned way of math and shows deliberately what the pattern of quantities is.

I have also noticed that you are working with very young children, as in a 5 yr. old. There needs to be time to assimilate this information.

With a child making 26 when saying one ten 6 that says there is not a clear understanding of what one ten is. When she does this what does she say when you ask her "how many tens are on your abacus?" Does she still say one? Or does she say two? I would suggest backing up and working on reading quantities on the abacus.

In regard to a child writing 20026 instead of 226. Have the child find the 200 place value card, find the 20 place value card and find the 6 place value card. Then have the child stack the cards, tap them on the right side so they "fall" into place value position, place the cards on the table and then write the numbers.

If the leap from adding 10 + 3 to 10 + 30 seems too great for your child at this time, than, again, back off of the lessons and move into the math card game book and work on the numeration section of the game book. There is a quantity recognition piece that needs more time for assimilation. Also, when showing 10 + 30, make sure there is an abacus available so your child can manipulate these quantities and "see" how they go together. At such a young age there is no expectation for immediate mental math ability. Have you child move 10 beads over and then 30 (3 ten) beads over and then speak the answer to you.

Why horizontally verses vertically? Again, we read from left to right. Two digit math is much quicker mentally than using the paper/pencil model. Often in real life when needing to add two digit numbers there often is no paper of pencil available.

I hope this begins to answer some of your questions. You are always welcome to call our customer service help line to discuss these questions as well as continue to post.

Thank you for giving your children a RightStart in math.

Sincerely, Rosine

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Place Value

Thank you Rosine for your response. I have been eagerly awaiting some help.
To answer your questions, when making 16 on the abacus she puts 26. When I ask her how many tens are on the abacus she recognizes her mistake and corrects it with ease. If she can correct her mistake she knows what it is suppose to be, it is just the beats in the terminology that messes her up one-ten (2 beats, 2 rows of ten. When we practice reading quantities in the abacus she does well, it is only with from the one ten to the two ten that she gets confused.

In regard to her writing 20026, it is the same terminology beat issue (two- hun-dred)and a lack of understanding that the 26 really mean two tens and 6 ones. Is this something that will just come with age?

As far as when she adds, she can add anything if she has the abacus. She cannot do them in her head very well. We still struggle, although are improving, with the 2+1, 3+1, etc. Now we have added the 26+1, 38+1, etc. and she is kinda getting this after much explaining. She cannot add tens in her head but does okay with the abacus.

When adding two digits numbers in my head I put them vertically so I can keep the place value straight in my head, I couldn't do it horizontally. Does this program just train their minds differently so that will seem more natural? Do you do anything with place value? It seems that it is an important thing to understand in math. I would be lost without it, but I am no mathmatician.

So what I really hear you saying is that my daughter is young so I need to just be patient and keep plugging along with the program, just stopping to play games when we get stuck. Am I right?

Is this math taught from a spiral perspective and not a mastery perspective?

Will I totally screw her up if she works on other worksheets to get the math she needs more practice with (right now it would be adding 10's)?

I have hesitated to give her any old worksheet because I understand that RightStart tries to form their thinking a totally different way then what I was taught and I don't want to undo or complicate what is being done. Does that make sense? Is it an irrational fear?

Thanks again for all of your help, much appreciated!
Crystal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Thank you for your posts. This is an interesting conversation. Yes you are correct in stating that the reason for naming numbers ten 1, 2ten 3 etc. is for quantity recognition. This way of naming numbers speaks to the patterned way of math and shows deliberately what the pattern of quantities is.

I have also noticed that you are working with very young children, as in a 5 yr. old. There needs to be time to assimilate this information.

With a child making 26 when saying one ten 6 that says there is not a clear understanding of what one ten is. When she does this what does she say when you ask her "how many tens are on your abacus?" Does she still say one? Or does she say two? I would suggest backing up and working on reading quantities on the abacus.

In regard to a child writing 20026 instead of 226. Have the child find the 200 place value card, find the 20 place value card and find the 6 place value card. Then have the child stack the cards, tap them on the right side so they "fall" into place value position, place the cards on the table and then write the numbers.

If the leap from adding 10 + 3 to 10 + 30 seems too great for your child at this time, than, again, back off of the lessons and move into the math card game book and work on the numeration section of the game book. There is a quantity recognition piece that needs more time for assimilation. Also, when showing 10 + 30, make sure there is an abacus available so your child can manipulate these quantities and "see" how they go together. At such a young age there is no expectation for immediate mental math ability. Have you child move 10 beads over and then 30 (3 ten) beads over and then speak the answer to you.

Why horizontally verses vertically? Again, we read from left to right. Two digit math is much quicker mentally than using the paper/pencil model. Often in real life when needing to add two digit numbers there often is no paper of pencil available.

I hope this begins to answer some of your questions. You are always welcome to call our customer service help line to discuss these questions as well as continue to post.

Thank you for giving your children a RightStart in math.

Sincerely, Rosine

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Place Value

Rosine,
I know you have graciously answered lots of my question, can you please respond to my previous response to your last email and then I will leave you alone. Thanks, I just need to clarify your last response.
Crystal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Thank you Rosine for your response. I have been eagerly awaiting some help.
To answer your questions, when making 16 on the abacus she puts 26. When I ask her how many tens are on the abacus she recognizes her mistake and corrects it with ease. If she can correct her mistake she knows what it is suppose to be, it is just the beats in the terminology that messes her up one-ten (2 beats, 2 rows of ten. When we practice reading quantities in the abacus she does well, it is only with from the one ten to the two ten that she gets confused.

In regard to her writing 20026, it is the same terminology beat issue (two- hun-dred)and a lack of understanding that the 26 really mean two tens and 6 ones. Is this something that will just come with age?

As far as when she adds, she can add anything if she has the abacus. She cannot do them in her head very well. We still struggle, although are improving, with the 2+1, 3+1, etc. Now we have added the 26+1, 38+1, etc. and she is kinda getting this after much explaining. She cannot add tens in her head but does okay with the abacus.

When adding two digits numbers in my head I put them vertically so I can keep the place value straight in my head, I couldn't do it horizontally. Does this program just train their minds differently so that will seem more natural? Do you do anything with place value? It seems that it is an important thing to understand in math. I would be lost without it, but I am no mathmatician.

So what I really hear you saying is that my daughter is young so I need to just be patient and keep plugging along with the program, just stopping to play games when we get stuck. Am I right?

Is this math taught from a spiral perspective and not a mastery perspective?

Will I totally screw her up if she works on other worksheets to get the math she needs more practice with (right now it would be adding 10's)?

I have hesitated to give her any old worksheet because I understand that RightStart tries to form their thinking a totally different way then what I was taught and I don't want to undo or complicate what is being done. Does that make sense? Is it an irrational fear?

Thanks again for all of your help, much appreciated!
Crystal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Thank you for your posts. This is an interesting conversation. Yes you are correct in stating that the reason for naming numbers ten 1, 2ten 3 etc. is for quantity recognition. This way of naming numbers speaks to the patterned way of math and shows deliberately what the pattern of quantities is.

I have also noticed that you are working with very young children, as in a 5 yr. old. There needs to be time to assimilate this information.

With a child making 26 when saying one ten 6 that says there is not a clear understanding of what one ten is. When she does this what does she say when you ask her "how many tens are on your abacus?" Does she still say one? Or does she say two? I would suggest backing up and working on reading quantities on the abacus.

In regard to a child writing 20026 instead of 226. Have the child find the 200 place value card, find the 20 place value card and find the 6 place value card. Then have the child stack the cards, tap them on the right side so they "fall" into place value position, place the cards on the table and then write the numbers.

If the leap from adding 10 + 3 to 10 + 30 seems too great for your child at this time, than, again, back off of the lessons and move into the math card game book and work on the numeration section of the game book. There is a quantity recognition piece that needs more time for assimilation. Also, when showing 10 + 30, make sure there is an abacus available so your child can manipulate these quantities and "see" how they go together. At such a young age there is no expectation for immediate mental math ability. Have you child move 10 beads over and then 30 (3 ten) beads over and then speak the answer to you.

Why horizontally verses vertically? Again, we read from left to right. Two digit math is much quicker mentally than using the paper/pencil model. Often in real life when needing to add two digit numbers there often is no paper of pencil available.

I hope this begins to answer some of your questions. You are always welcome to call our customer service help line to discuss these questions as well as continue to post.

Thank you for giving your children a RightStart in math.

Sincerely, Rosine

Place Value: Yes, play the math card games.

Hi Crystal. Please forgive me for not getting to this post earlier. Thank you for reposting. This post came when I was at a convention and must have slipped by when I was checking through emails and posts upon my return. So, good you posted again. Also know for future reference, you may call our customer service line at 888-272-3291 and talk to any customer service person or ask to leave a message for me to call you.

From reading over your post I believe I'm reading a bit of a summation of my last post to you. You are correct in reading what I wrote as saying to take a slower pace and play the math card games. Always have an abacus available for your child. At this age asking if a child can add mentally is good, but certainly not necessary as she develops her understanding of math.

I'm confused about your question regarding "Do you do anything with place value?" Yes, the place value cards are a big piece in teaching place value. RightStart teaches place value from left to right because that is how we read numbers. If you are asking does RightStart teach place value the way many of us were taught in school, from right to left, than no, RightStart does not teach it that way. The main reason is to teach place value from right to left and then ask a child to read a number from left to right is actually quite confusing for the young child and is often why there are so many 5th and 6th grade students who have difficulties with place value.

The tapping of the place value cards sets in for the child the place value of a number. Ex: 100 as one-hun-dred tells a child that the hundred's place takes up three places. 20 as 2 ten tells a child the tens takes up two places, and 3 with one tap shows that the ones place takes only one place. As you have mentioned, I do believe that yes, with age these concepts will come along just fine.

As far as worksheets. At this young age you really don't need any more worksheets because, again we believe that playing the math card games are the best drill and review. The numeration section of the game book is good for helping a child understand place value. However, if you have a child who likes worksheets than I recommend that you consider purchasing the book titled Worksheets for the AL abacus.

This curriculum is taught for understanding using the AL abacus and math card games. Concepts build on each other so there is not an excessive amount of review from one level to the next. Mastery is found by playing the math card games.

I am more than happy to answer any of your questions. Don't hesitate to continue to ask them. Again feel free to email, post or call.

You may also appreciate posting your questions on the yahoo RightStart board which you can connect to through this website under forums. There are many homeschool families who share their thoughts and ideas on that site.

Sincerely, Rosine

Re: Place Value: Yes, play the math card games.

Thank you again for your reply. This helps a great deal. You answered my question about the place value (using the traditional school way of right to left). I see how it would cause confusion but my daughter was confused as to which place each number represented. She couldn't understand that 21 or two-ten one actually meant two tens and one one because she had no idea that the one represented ones. Anyhow, thank you for your help and we will keep plugging along. She does enjoy the math a great deal.
Crystal

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Hi Crystal. Please forgive me for not getting to this post earlier. Thank you for reposting. This post came when I was at a convention and must have slipped by when I was checking through emails and posts upon my return. So, good you posted again. Also know for future reference, you may call our customer service line at 888-272-3291 and talk to any customer service person or ask to leave a message for me to call you.

From reading over your post I believe I'm reading a bit of a summation of my last post to you. You are correct in reading what I wrote as saying to take a slower pace and play the math card games. Always have an abacus available for your child. At this age asking if a child can add mentally is good, but certainly not necessary as she develops her understanding of math.

I'm confused about your question regarding "Do you do anything with place value?" Yes, the place value cards are a big piece in teaching place value. RightStart teaches place value from left to right because that is how we read numbers. If you are asking does RightStart teach place value the way many of us were taught in school, from right to left, than no, RightStart does not teach it that way. The main reason is to teach place value from right to left and then ask a child to read a number from left to right is actually quite confusing for the young child and is often why there are so many 5th and 6th grade students who have difficulties with place value.

The tapping of the place value cards sets in for the child the place value of a number. Ex: 100 as one-hun-dred tells a child that the hundred's place takes up three places. 20 as 2 ten tells a child the tens takes up two places, and 3 with one tap shows that the ones place takes only one place. As you have mentioned, I do believe that yes, with age these concepts will come along just fine.

As far as worksheets. At this young age you really don't need any more worksheets because, again we believe that playing the math card games are the best drill and review. The numeration section of the game book is good for helping a child understand place value. However, if you have a child who likes worksheets than I recommend that you consider purchasing the book titled Worksheets for the AL abacus.

This curriculum is taught for understanding using the AL abacus and math card games. Concepts build on each other so there is not an excessive amount of review from one level to the next. Mastery is found by playing the math card games.

I am more than happy to answer any of your questions. Don't hesitate to continue to ask them. Again feel free to email, post or call.

You may also appreciate posting your questions on the yahoo RightStart board which you can connect to through this website under forums. There are many homeschool families who share their thoughts and ideas on that site.

Sincerely, Rosine