Would anyone be interested in doing a CZ ride Saturday morning from LBC if they're not doing the Foglight event? I thought Bill H.'s route to Norene would be a good idea. Let me know and I can print off the cue sheet(s).

Route to Norene out an back total miles is 28.8

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1344644

Bill

Thanks

Tentatively planning to ride with you guys.

This ride will not count for club miles. Foglights is the official club ride. Also, it is club policy that we do not post up rides on this message board that conflict with the MBC ride calendar (i.e. if a ride is on the club's calendar for that day do not post a ride here). Going forward, if you wish to post off calendar rides such as this, then you may do so on the Murfreesboro Bike Club Facebook page.

Bill G.

Bill - I think the club should reconsider this policy. First off, not everyone has access to Facebook. The MBC message board is the only way some members have to communicate with fellow riders who are in their same skill level, area of town, etc.

Not all rides are accessible or convenient for everyone to attend. This policy seems very contrary to what I have always felt is a warm and welcoming environment.

If you don't want the miles to count then that would be fine but I feel members should be able to communicate and plan rides via the message board.

-Scott

I'm not sure what policy I've violated or protocol I broke, but since I'm new to the club I apologize for the offense.
I thought this was what the message board was for, but my mistake for not knowing.
In hopes of finding someone that was not able to make the Foglight trip, I was wondering if someone wanted to ride here locally. This action won't happen again on my account.

The reason for this policy is to protect the club's official rides and the ride leaders. It is not to discourage people from riding. It is very difficult for the ride directors to find ride leaders for each ride. When someone posts up rides that are off the club's official calender it draws riders away from the club's official rides. I understand that not everyone can make every ride. That is why rides are offered 5 out of 7 days a week (you may post up freely on the two open days (Monday and Friday) as long as no club ride is scheduled on those days (check the ride calendar). That is why the Facebook page exists. The Facebook page is a non-official club page created and owned by Sarah Lovett. She can give you access to that page. That's also why you may communicate via word of mouth about these other rides. If you would like to lead a ride, then you have the opportunity each month to step up and put a ride in the ride calendar. Just contact Bill Heim or Keith Whitaker to get your ride on the calendar (contact them now to get your August ride on the calendar if you like to lead one). Also, you may post up rides here when the official ride is listed as a "Consensus Ride". "Consensus Rides" indicate an official club ride but no one has stepped up to be the official ride leader.

The club's calendar is what provides the rides that are counted toward club miles for rider awards. These awards are given out at the Chili ride in January. That is the reason off calender rides are not counted as club miles. The off calendar rides are not official club rides.

This policy is only in place during April-October (which is the club's official season). November-March you may post here freely as this message board becomes the winter riding network.

If you are new to the club, then I understand that you may not have known this policy. That is why I said "going forward" to refrain from posting up conflicting rides. I did not say you could not have your ride. Which I hope is great. I have to bring this up because I can not let CZ rides post up when I have told non-CZ rides that they also can not post up rides. I am maintaining consistency.

Bill G.

I'm in

Ride starts @ 7:30 am

I'm with Scott on this one. I'm one of those people that could not make the long drive to Foglights today. I don't think Brad was trying to talk anyone into not going to the club ride. Thank you Brad for the offer.

Just to be clear, this is not a lash out at Bill. I like Bill and have no beef with him. I understand his position as club president. This is about club policy. I believe we should be able to post up a concensus ride if the club ride is an event that not everyone ca attend. I know we have Facebook but not everyone is a member of FB. If we have an alternate ride and state is as not a club ride and not counting toward club miles, I wouldn't think it to be an issue. I know there have been concensus rides posted here in the past.

...what he said...

I need to discuss the topic of "Consensus Rides". Consensus Rides are listed on the club's official calendar. As such, these are official club rides and the miles count toward rider awards. You may not just post up a consensus ride when one is not on the official club calendar (exception is days when there is not an official club ride such as Monday and Friday (check the ride calendar)). There are reasons we have consensus rides. One is, as I stated in my previous post, there is not an official ride leader nor is there an official route. There may be a start location and time listed on the calendar for general guidance. So, whoever posts up a route can lead the ride. Consensus rides can be any number of miles and any number of steep hills. Also, these can be full drop rides where you are on you own.

Another reason for "Consensus Rides" is this. When the calendar contains "event rides" such as the Harpeth River Ride, Tour de Cure, Tour de boro, Jack and Back, etc. (none of which count for club miles toward rider awards). Though, they are great rides. We list these on the calendar to support other clubs and wonderful organizations that in turn support our HOT100. We put a consensus ride on the calender to provide the opportunity for the club members to have a ride that they do not have to pay extra for. We know that if you've paid for a membership, then you expect to have club rides offered to you.

With respect to the Foglights ride. You did not have to eat the $20 meal to ride. I realize this ride is a long distance from Murfreesboro. I got home at 2:30PM from this one but this is one of the nicest touring events that we do.

Now, a little bit about the meal and the benefits received by the memebers. The $20 meal cost broke out to $10 of which the members paid and $10 plus tip that the club paid. If you paid for an individual membership. You would have just received more than half of your money back (figuring in gratuity) in the shared cost of the meal. Then when you consider the food at the kick-off ride. The volunteer party after the HOT100. The food at general club meetings and finally, the meal at the Christmas party. You actually get back more than you've paid in.

At the next officer's meeting (in August) I will present the following: When rides are out of our normal riding area that we consider placing a "Consenus Ride" on the club's calendar for those not able to attend the out of town rides. I can not guarantee this will pass the board. As, the members are encouraged to attend the club rides as offered.

Finally, with respect to 2013 officer elections. At the September general club meeting I will be assembling a nominating committee that will put together a list of nominees for 2013 officers. At the November general club meeting we will take nominations from the floor, if anyone wants to be considered for an office that was not nominated by the committee. Then we will hold the elections. The new officers are installed at the Chili Ride (January's general club meeting) after the previous seasons business is wrapped up.

I welcome new members to step up and become an officer in the club.

Bill G.

I want to "jump in" on this one....because its something I feel strongly about!!

First of all, Brad this was an honest mistake on your part, so in no way is this "aimed" toward you. But others are quite famaliar with this policy we are referring, and its hard for me to believe we're re-visiting this AGAIN!!

Second of all, the "no compete ride" policy is for the purposes mentioned by Bill G. in his post. These leaders have taken time out of their personal schedules to coordinate these rides/routes/meals for our members to enjoy. So please show a little courtesy and/or appreciation for their efforts!!

Third of all, I am aware some of our members disagree with this policy. Please be reminded that our upcoming November 2012 general club meeting we will be taking nominations and electing Club Officers for 2013. Please feel free get in involved and make a difference!!!

And last, I back Bill G. 100% on this one!!!

Now I've decided that I don't care how many rides there are or who posts against a ride I'm leading. The more bikers, the more mass to impact road decisions.

Club rides used to be attended by a large percentage of members. Not so much any more. There are multiple non-calendar rides going on even when there are multiple club rides happening. Some of these off-calendar rides have more people riding than the individual club rides.

It isn't very time consuming to come up with a route. In fact, I have a bunch on file and come up with a new one anytime I want to ride something different. What would I do if I planned a ride and no one came? Same as always....sign in then go ride.

More rides with pot lucks would be nice. Add food and more people show up - even some that haven't been around since last year.
Hows this for a strict rule going forward....no posting against a ride where there is food. Food takes more work than getting a route.

We could have an August ride/meeting to discuss. That would also be a good time to round up some help for the HOT.

PS: What's the latest on Don Holder? I haven't heard since he went home.

Ok, I see both sides of the coin and both are very valid and reasonable points. Regardless of where I fall I will respect the rules on this as it is my personal choice to be a member of this club. However, upon weighing this topic in my mind it has occurred to me that there are many times when a ride leader has posted their route on this forum and someone else (NOT THE RIDE LEADER) comes along and gathers a group of people together to alter the route either by adding to it or cutting it short. Now it seems to me that there isn't a whole lot of difference between someone doing that and someone posting a "non club ride" ride on a scheduled "club ride" ride day.

The no compete ride policy was put into place for the reason as mentioned in Bill's previous post. It was never meant to "strong arm" anyone into participating in the club ride. Our weekly club rides give people the opportunity to gather to do something we love to do---RIDE!! Let's not forget the social aspect which all of us have benefited.
If you all want to go the way of "splinter" rides for next year, then I'm OK with it! Then there are two issues to be addressed:

1) Will the club need a Ride Director anymore? If
just anyone can post a ride at anytime, would
it be worth the time and effort to find a
volunteer..or to even plan a route?

2) Will the club need to purchase an insurance
policy anymore? This policy offers secondary
insurance to any member that is injured from
a bicycle related accident on a club ride.

Just a thought!

This is my opinion only. I feel that the club needs a ride calendar on a monthly basis for those that want/need a structured ride schedule. However if someone wants to post a non-calendar ride post the ride on the message board. There are times when I cannot make the scheduled club-ride but am open to other times so I don't have to ride solo. I am Bill Heim and approve this message.
Bill

When you want to do something (ie ride and eat) 1 excuse is as good as another.

We need scheduled rides. Besides, the carrier probably wouldn't cover everyone who posts a bootleg ride.

Junkman we had a general club meeting with a ride and a meal in June. The attendance of which was probably less than 30% of the membership. The HOT100 was a big topic of that meeting and we urged members to volunteer to help. I am not sure why we need to hold another meeting to repeat that. I am sure that we asked for volunteers through the newsletter and likely this message board. I hope that the membership realizes how important the volunteering is to the HOT100 and will have signed up to work the ride. I brought up the topic of off-calendar rides with the officers at our July meeting. I will bring the off-calendar rides once again at the officers' meeting in August with new thoughts from this series of back and forth discussions. I will address this with the full club at the September meeting required by the by-laws.

Bill G.

And your point is? That was June. This is July and August is around the corner. There are still roads and people eat every day. We could use the reason "because it is Saturday". That is a perfectly fine reason to have a eat & ride. We could talk about the weather if bikes or HOT are off topic. It really doesn't matter - only an excuse to ride and eat.

Perhaps a little relaxation in the discussion is called for. It seems like some are entrenched in their positions and taking the discussion personally.

"Less than 30%" means little. People are busy & most don't get involved in the club's day to day or even regularly attend club rides.

Regarding rounding up volunteers and "how important it is", sending email blasts or posting on the board helps but is probably the least effective way to get volunteers. Personal invitations work and a face to face or phone call is required for that. It is really only high priority to a few. Others simply show up and pay a fee or help day of or whatever.

I simply threw the HOT comment out because it is getting close to time and I haven't heard status or seen a list of outstanding positions and expected that we're light. I also expect that those who make it a priority are taking care of it as they always have.

Peace.

Junkman....I resent the HELL out of those comments! "Most people are busy"....."personal invitations and phone calls are required"....WTF man??!!?? What gives you the impression we officers are not busy. I'm at the office 10 hours a day plus another 8.5 on alternating Saturdays. Therefore, what little personal time I have to give to this club is not good enough for you all??
Its attitudes like this and other complaints that my generosity and service for this Club is going to end 12/31/12!!!

Keith, Bill, and all others involved in this thread,

First and foremost, Keith please take a step back for a second before you decide to step down. I don't think anyone in the club would want you to do that based off differences in opinion here. I see Junkmans point even though I think he is just looking for a free meal! :) However, I do agree that maybe there should be an impromptu meeting maybe before one of our weekend rides to address the topic at hand. Obviously, there are two sides that feel very strongly about "off calander rides" and how this should be handled going forward.

Bill, I would think that in addition to the official club rides listed on this website and in the newsletter there should also be a "unofficial consensus ride" posted for each weekday/weekend ride as well. It could be made perfectly clear that this ride is for those that may not be able to make the regularly scheduled ride or due to personal circumstances that may arise and that this ride will not count towards club miles and that the secondary insurance will not apply to the riders who participate. Personally, I don't see many who would opt to do this unless there was truly a personal scheduling conflict or just an issue with the start location of the official club ride. This would/should solve the constant bickering and division this topic is causing amongst club members. I would think that the officers would want to make this exception so as not to lose any club members.I believe that if the officers truly care about the input of its members it should be addressed now and not later.

As it relates to the HOT 100, I think that Junkman did a poor job of wording his concern regarding members involvement and where we stand with volunteers. I think he is just looking for some transparency. For those that truly care about this event and want it to succeed, I think it might be beneficial to update the club on the status of the positions of need and whether or not they are being filled. Keith, I don't think he was questioning your commitment or how you are handling your duties as an officer. I think you work really hard to grow and make the club experience as enjoyable as possible for those members who simply wish to show up and ride.

I hope that this issue will be discussed amongst the club members and not just at the next officers meeting. Maybe if we can get club members involved on this matter and each have some input as to the outcome members will take club matters more seriously moving forward. In closing, I want to take this opportunity to thank all of the officers and those that take the time to coordinate the club rides for their time and efforts. I hope to be more involved going forward. I think that we have a great opportunity to grow our club and bring in more fresh legs! That is it for me folks. Hope to see you all on the road soon!

David Koonce
AKA Sandbagger

David,

Yes, I will definitely let the membership have an opportunity to speak upon this topic (not just the officers) as this is a very hot topic to the club as a whole. The problem that I see with an impromtu meeting is that the results of this discussion needs to be recorded. Also, we need to have a large group of members to be at the meeting. Our rides are not necessarily starting at the same location so there is a disconnect there. Right now the first ride that I know of where both groups will be together is the HOT100 preview. We were supposed to be together this weekend but the CZ ride was moved to Bell Buckle by the ride leader. Also, I have not seen the August ride calendar yet. I am not trying to make excuses but we need as much of the club's collective voice on this one as we can get. We do not even get that when we hold our general club meetings which are ride/eat/meet. The best turnout we get is the "Kick-off" ride.

Bill G.

I must make a correction to my post concerning the rides being together this weekend. The CZ ride was left with an open start time and location by the ride leader. The ride was not moved as I originally indicated. So there was no evidence that we would be together this weekend. Please accept my apology for my mistatement.

Bill G.

Keith, much is lost in emails & posts. I didn't intend to imply anything about your schedule, activities or amount of time devoted to the club. I apologize.

I've re-read your posts, Bill's and mine and have decided not to respond. Let's leave it at that for further discussion when appropriate.