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Fred_rose_Trix

IP: 67.68.249.188

May 25, 05 - 9:44 PM

Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Voila ce que donne le dogmatisme idiot de la fraction Figuerora-Roley. Rien de nouveau sous le soleil ce qui nous arrive. Peut-être que nous devrions lâcher un appel dans le reste du Canada pour fonder le "New Communist Party of Canada" avec le PCQ comme section du NPCC au Québec? Si les membres du Comité Central on pas le courage de botter les fesses a ses moines du stalinisme, pourquoi pas!!! Puisque nous faisons passer le communisme et le bolchevisme avant cette religion qu'est le "Marxisme-Léninisme".

Collapse of the Soviet bloc and party split
In common with most communist parties, it went through a crisis after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and subsequently split. The pro-reform majority led by George Hewison argued for the reorientation of the party away from the official doctrine of Marxism-Leninism. An unreconstructed minority led by Miguel Figueroa and former leader William Kashtan resisted and, after being defeated at the party's 1992 convention and expelled from the party, took the CPC to court. Due to the inner-party conflict, membership of the party fell by half, leaving it with several hundred members. An added factor to the party's troubles was the loss of its longstanding covert financial assistance from the Soviet Union. The party's financial crisis forced it to sell off assets such as the party's headquarters at 24 Cecil Street and liquidate money losing enterprises such as its printshop, and publishing house.

As a result of a court settlement the majority faction left the Communist Party in 1992 and the expelled minority assumed the "Communist Party of Canda" name. The former Communists retained the Cecil-Ross Society as a political foundation to continue their political efforts. Various societies had been set up by the party over the years in order to maintain capital assets such as Eveready Printers (the party printshop) and Progress Publishers. The name of the Cecil-Ross Society comes from the intersection of Cecil Street and Ross Street in Toronto where the headquarters of the party was located. The Cecil-Ross Society took with it the rights to the Canadian Tribune, which had been the party's weekly newspaper for decades, as well as roughly half of the party's assets. The Cecil-Ross Society ended publication of the Canadian Tribune and attempted to launch a new broad-left magazine, New Times which failed after several issues and then Ginger which only published twice. The Young Communist League ceased to function at this point as most of its members either left with the majority or dropped out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Canada

George Hewison
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
George Hewison (born 1944) is a former long-time member of the Communist Party of Canada and trade unionist. A second-generation member of the party, Hewison grew up selling the party press and joined the party at the age of 17. His father "Red Jack" Hewison, had immigrated to Canada from Scotland and had been a founding member of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation but was disillusioned by the CCF during the Cold War and joined the Labour-Progressive Party (as the Communist Party was known) when CCF leaders supported a raid by Hal Banks and the Seafarers International Union against Hewison's union, the United Fishermen and Allied Workers Union in 1953.

Hewison succeeded William Kashtan as general secretary in 1988 at a time when the Communist world was being convulsed by Mikhail Gorbachev's reforms in the Soviet Union. He was leader of the Canadian party when the USSR and the Soviet bloc collapsed. The Communist Party of Canada had long been uncritical supporters of Moscow and was severely disoriented by the collapse of Soviet Communism in Eastern Europe. Hewison and other leaders of the party attempted to open a discussion about the causes for the collapse of the Soviet Union and the significance for Communists in Canada and internationally. He was challenged by a minority faction, led by previous leader William Kashtan and future leader Miguel Figueroa among others who accused him of "revisionism". Hewison was unanimously re-elected leader at the party's next convention in 1992 which produced a new manifesto called "Communists and the New Decade" (1990s). The minority faction, which had been defeated at the convention, continued to resist the direction the Hewison leadership was heading and finally forced the party and its elected leadership into court. An out-of-court settlement took place between the group around Hewison and those around the minority faction which coalesced around Figueroa, and others. In the meantime, hundreds of party activists disgusted with the paralytic debate between the factions, left the party. During the inner-party squabble, the membership plummetted from 1500 to 800. The out-of-court settlement mandating the splitting of the old party's assets, with the minority assuming the name "Communist Party of Canada", an

Fred_rose_Trix

IP: 67.68.249.188

May 25th, 2005 - 9:47 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC? (suite)

Merci!
>I am truly sorry but not surprised by the actions of Figueroa and
>Rowley! As you know they were soundly defeated at two conventions of the
>Communist Party of Canada conventions-1988 and 1990. Like your Wm Sloan,
>they continued to mobilize against the overwhelming decisions of our
>Conventions. Our membership, about 1500 when I became general secretary
>began dropping away, sickened by a small group of disrupters, who had no
>connection with reality, much less revolutonary politics. They were
>unprepared to examine the new realities brought on by the collapse of
>the Soviet Union and the implications for our movement and our shared
>history...and although Figueroa, Cariou, Rankin and Rowley voted for the
>final documents of the last convention I was at,"The Communist Party and
>the New Decade", they resisted and mobilized against it. In elections at
>convention, I was unopposed but Rowley, Cariou and Figueroa were soundly
>thrashed.when they ran against other talented, committed and "connected"
>members of our executive.Most members of the party felt we were in a
>"dance with the dead"-the Party was paralyzed. We were finally forced to
>expel them for their serious factionalism( in fact we were two parties
>operating inside one for almost three years). We should be clear, they
>did not purge us! They resorted to the bosses' courts where we were sued
>and forced to abandon the name and one half the assets to them. By then,
>most of the members did not want to be associated with them ...they are
>a sect, incapable of drawing lessons, understanding the path to
>socialism, much less the national question. You comrades have every
>right to expect communists and progressives in English Canada to operate
>in a principled manner. Be assured there are many who will fight great
>nation chauvinism in English-speaking Canada and will support our
>brothers and sisters in the working class in Quebec as they determine
>their destiny.. From my experience, you are dealing with narrow
>opportunism. I don't know about the resources your letter talks
>about...I presume it is what is left of the Dogwood Fund. I know about
>this because I come from BC and was many years on the BC executive of
>the Party. I know that many veterans including my parents, who gave
>their life to the Party and after their life made their wills out to the
>Dogwood Fund so that the fight for socialism would go on. It is sad that
>it has come to this, but the fight will go on and today's youth will
>become tomorrow's veterans and they will be wiser for this experience.As
>for me, I was a member of the Party for thirty years, and still consider
>myself a communist in the best Marxist sense of that word. Aside from
>having to make a living, I have spent the last ten years researching the
>demise of the Soviet Union, and its relevance to the Communists here and
>internationally. Perhaps at some point, when this crisis passes, we can
>examine these questions in more detail, because they are relevant to
>what you have just come through. In solidarity, George Hewison.
>
>Alexandre Pouliot-Roberge wrote:
>
> > I Have talk to one of ex member of the CPC call Mario Ouellette and he
> > speak to me about the putch of Figuerora againts you. Now, Rowley
> > and Figuerora talk about a reformist plot. This is ridiculous and I
> > know it. Now, we fight a purge from Figuerora-Roley againts the
> > majority of the CPQ. You'll have the information in this email.
> >
> > Contact André Parizeau and explain all than can be utile to us :
> > pcq@sympatico.ca
> >
> > Rital-Soviet
> >
> > To be circulated to all CPC members in English Speaking Canada
> >
> > Montreal, April 29, 2005
> >
> > Letter to CPC members
> >
> > in English Speaking Canada
> >
> > from the National Executive Committee
> >
> > of the PCQ
> >
> > Dear comrades,
> >
> > April 27 should be remembered by all communists in Canada as a very
> > sad day because five members of the Central Executive Committee (CEC)
> > of the Communist Party of Canada (CPC) litterally hijacked the future
> > of the CPC and set aside many of the most basic Party internal rules,
> > including very explicit clauses of the CPC Constitution, in a futile
> > attempt to crush the Parti communiste du Québec (PCQ).
> >
> > We say that their attempt was futile because it will have no impact
> > what so ever on the determination of the PCQ members to uphold the
> > PCQ’s recent XVth Convention decisions and to continue to move forward
> > according to the general outline as decided at that Convention.
> >
> > Having said that, such a move could still have very serious
> > consequences for the CPC.This is no time to underestimate the
> > potential for very serious damages to the CPC.One very immediate
> > impact of such moves will, in effect, c

Fred_rose_Trix

IP: 67.68.249.188

May 25th, 2005 - 10:10 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC? ( ma dernière suite)

Ce que vous voyez içi n'est rien, de ce que le PCC fait contre nous,ils sont une honte! Biensure se n'est pas tout le parti, c'est just qu'elles que membres comme: Miguel Figueroa et Liz Rowley! Qu'es ce que vous pensez de les magnigances du PCC, es ce une façon démocratique d'agire? Es ce les genre de membres qu'il nous faut? Je suis dégoutée de la façons dont ils agissent! Ils remplacent un chef (André Pariezaeu) qui travaille fort en ordre de faire monter le parti, pour un BUM (Pierre Fontain) sachant que lors de notre dernièrs congrès il fessait parti de 1/4 des membres qu'ont a expulsé! Ils ont expulsés des membres valables comme le camarade Kenneth Higham et Pierre Klépock pour mettre quoi? Des camarades parésseux et inutiles ( William Sloan, Anibal Laner, Silvain Archambeau)qu'au lieu de nous aider, ils nous font subire plusieurs umiliations! Ils ont donnés des messures diciplinaires à des membres actifs comme Dominique Théberge et Guy Roy!En autres mots ils soutiennent une minoryté qui as été expulsé a notre 15e Congrès (22au24 avril. Ils ne se servent même pas des notre livre de constitution puis qu'ils font l'érreure idiotte de dire qu'une membre de 15 ans ne peut être dans le parti, car l'âge réquisse est 16 ans, mais voyons cette règle est seulement valable pour les membres du PCC et moi je suis dans le PCQ c'est intéréssant vraiment! Bon voici mon opinion, là je veut voire la votre!

Antistal

IP: 205.211.132.24

May 27th, 2005 - 8:53 AM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Mais qui représente le PCQ maintenant? Est-ce que c'est le groupe de Pierre Fontaine ou celui d'André Parizeau/Pierre Klépock? Si on se fie au site web ça semble plus le deuxième groupe. Est-ce qu'il y avoir deux groupes revendiquant la légitimité du nom PCQ?

Antistal

Dominique

IP: 66.46.71.65

May 27th, 2005 - 8:07 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Seul un groupe peut légalement revendiquer le nom PCQ. Il est déjà réservé auprès du DGE, et le nom du journal la Voix du Peuple est aussi enregistré légalement. La bataille se fait surtout au niveau de la crédibilité, et on n'a pas un ennemi très fort de ce côté là. Il n'y a pas eu beaucoup d'action du côté des "4" du côté militant, ce qui semble indiquer que même s'ils avaient la capacité de revendiquer la légitimité du PCQ, ils n'en ont pas la volonté, leurs actions se sont limitées à des attaques visant à détruire le PCQ, discréditer l'UFP, insulter les syndicats et ruiner André financièrement, absolument rien pour construire leur propre alternative.

Kenneth Higham

IP: 65.95.36.39

May 27th, 2005 - 8:12 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Salut Antistal!
Ta quéstion est importante. Je vais essayer de te la repondre.
Le mois passé pendant notre XVième Congrès André Parizeau était réelu comme chef du Parti. Le nouveau Comité national exécutif aussi élu, en même temps, consiste de quatre persones; André Parizeau, Pierre Klépok, Dominique Thèberge et moi, Kenneth Higham. Pour motifs de sécurité je ne mentione pas les noms des nouveaux membres du Comité national.
Pendant ce Congrès nous avons expulsé à vote majoritaire quatre membres problèmatiques qui avaient formé portion du dernière Comité national exécutif; Monsieur Sylvain Archambalut, Monsieur Pierre Fontaine, Monsieur Anibal Laner et Monsieur William Sloane. On appelle ce groupe gauchiste infameux «la bande de Quatre». Si tu prends le temps de lire les informations du Camarade Hewson, fournies grâce à notre camarade Alexandre, concernant l'histoire récente du PCC (malheureusement juste en anglais, pour le moment) tu voyeras que les situations sont rémarquablèment similaires. Nous pourrions dire que le clique Figueroa -Rowly sont déjà des vétérains des subtréfuges et des déceptions. Ils sont plus habitués de lutter dans les tribuneaux que dans la rue. Ce clique avait peur de nous içi au Québec parce que notre histoire de développement pendant les dernières ans est incroyable. Les membres du clique Figueroa-Rolwey sont jaloux. Il sont des bureaucrates du pire type! Les communistes du Québec sont très differents et notre progrès est beaucoup mieux que leurs. La porte de notre Parti communiste du Québec est ouverte à tous les révolutionaires qui sont d'accord avec notre programme. Vraiment, hors d'Amérique latine l'endroit le plus révolutionaire en Amérique est au Québec.
Si le Canada n'appuyait pas les aventures États-Unienes en Irak tel comme les autres pays anglophones du monde, c'est grâce aux québécois. Il est claire que la conciènce politique au Canada est beaucoup plus en faveur de la droite que la nôtre. Le Canada a accepté notre position anti-guerre simplement pour des motifs politiques. Le Canada considère le Québec come un groupe influentiel et pas comme une nation. C'est comme si nous étions les anti-Cubains de Miami ou les sionisits de New York! Le Canada ne nous respèct pas comme une nation,il nous considèrent comme un groupe d'agitation.
Concernnant la «Bande de quatre»: Ce groupe de traîtres et quisslings désgracieux. Parce qu' ils n'étaient pas capable de dominier le PCQ ils ont pris un autre tactique; celle d'essayer d'impliquer le PCC dans nos affaires intèrnes. Mais, le XV Congrès du PCQ à vote majoritaire a expulsé ces vendus. Le Comité central du PCC est en contre de notre décision. Tant pis! La démocracie ne va pas toujours comme on le veut. Le clique de Madame Rowley et de Monsieur Figueroa s'est trompés completement. Pour écouter la propagande fédéraliste et anti-patriotique de la Bande de Quatre, ont perdu leur rélation avec les camarades de notre Parti. Nous, les membres du Parti communiste du Québec, faissons un appel à nos camarades du parti Communiste du Canada. Vos chefs, camarades, madame Rowley et Monsieur Figaroa sont des ordures. Jettez-les et nous pouvons retourner à travailler ensembles. Just qu'à temps que vous acceptez ces gros bureaucrates gauchistes, commes vos chefs nous ne pouvons pas dialoguer. Camarades, videz vos vidanges!
Deplus: Dans le Comité central exécutif du Parti communiste du Canada il y a un criminal; une personne qui a falsifié au minimum 17 chèques. En même temps d'un fond d'héritage du Parti canadien il manque plus de 100 000$ dollars. Le clique de Rowley et Figueroea devait savoir ça, mais étant donné qu'ils ne dissent rient les fait des accompliss. Ils sont tout comme les liberaux avec les comandites! Figarueoa, Rolwey et la Bande ne sont pas des communistes! Nous, le PCQ, nous sommes les vrais communistes.
Vive le Québec libre et rouge!
Kenneth Higham
Membre du Comité national exécutif
du Parti communiste du Quebec

Antistal

IP: 70.80.63.178

May 27th, 2005 - 8:53 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Merci pour les informations. J'ai un peu de difficulté à vous suivre, car dans un précédent message vous parliez de l'expulsion du quart des membres lors du dernier congrès du PCQ et que le PCC a désigné Pierre Fontaine comme chef du PCQ et maintenant vous parlez de seulement quatre personnes. Il y a une certaine confusion à mon avis. Je ne tiens pas à lancer une autre polémique sur la question nationale, mais je crois que de qualifier automatiquement l'opposition à la "souveraineté du Québec" d'appui au fédéralisme est foncièrement erroné. Comme je l'ai déjà expliqué dans ce forum, le débat constitutionnel Québec/Canada est une lutte entre deux factions nationalistes bourgeoises pour le repartage du pouvoir et aucune ne mérite l'appui du prolétariat. On peut très bien être contre le nationalisme québécois tout en étant aussi le chauvinisme canadien. La direction du PCC fait sans aucun doute preuve de chauvinisme, mais le PCQ est en train de sombrer complètement dans le marais du nationalisme québécois.

Antistal

Fred_Rose_Trix

IP: 67.68.241.216

May 27th, 2005 - 10:55 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Pendant notre congrès ont a expulssé 4 membres (Pierre Fontaine, Anibal Laner, Sylvain Archambeau,William Sloan, mais le PCC ne veut pas reconnaitre nos décissions et ils les ont réintégrés et ont expulsé André Parizeau, Kenneth Higham et Pierre Klépock, mais pour nous, notre chef est André et ont ne recconais pas l'autre gang ... esce plus claire?

Rital-Soviet

IP: 24.203.26.189

May 28th, 2005 - 4:33 AM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Je vais être encore plus clair : la clique a Pierre Fontaine est une coquille vide que Figuerora et Roley essaye de faire vivre sur le respirateur pour mieux terroriser la majorité des membres du PCQ en leur pendant la menace d'expulsion sous le nez. C'est gentils enfants du pute essayer tout simplement d'utiliser les techniques bureaucratiques pour avoir notre peau et garder le PCC dans le dinosaurisme. Mais la clique Figuerora-Roley nous fera crouler comme ça car ce sont eux les croulants.

Vincent

IP: 70.80.117.8

Jun 10th, 2005 - 6:02 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Mais si je comprends bien le groupe de Parizeau conserve les locaux de parti à Montréal, le droit légal d'utiliser le nom PCQ et surtout, ils conservent La Voix du Peuple, qui est à peu près la seule réalisation concrète du Parti pour le commun des mortels.

Donc, les choses ne vont pas si mal, et cette "bande des quatre" ne contrôle à peu près rien.

Quoi que quelqu'un mentionnait qu'ils auraient tenté de "ruiner financièrement" le chef...ça ça veux peut-être dire qu'ils ont réussi à siphoner une partie du capital du parti...

Rital-Soviet

IP: 24.203.26.189

Jun 11th, 2005 - 1:23 AM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

On a aussi les capacités de voire le marxisme comme autre chose qu'un religion. Puis ça c'est bon pour l'avenir car les gens ne vont pas nous voir comme des vieux croutons poussièreux qui récite des trucs sans les comprendre.

Dirk Buchholz

IP: 70.69.104.119

Jul 16th, 2005 - 2:49 AM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Where can one find a copy of"Communists and the New Decade" (1990s).AS talked about at the begining of this thread.PLease respond in english,my french is limited.Thanks from the "left coast"

dirk

IP: 70.69.104.119

Jul 17th, 2005 - 10:40 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

This is more for "Fred_ Rose_ Tri" or anyone with relevent info....you said you were there when the CPC produced a new manifesto called "Communists and the New Decade" (1990s).
Are copies still out there?If not perhaps you could post the main parts and ideas behind "Communists and the New Decade"
FRom what I have heard Hewison and others wanted to liquidate the CPC as a communist party and make it more a social democratic party.This is what I have heard,as to its truthfulness,I have no idea, perhaps you might comment on this.
Before the old forum(CPC) was discontinued a few months ago,there were many post by members wanting info and a more indepth understanding of exactly what went down.This info would be helpful to those trying to understand where the CPC is going and how the leadership thinks.But like I say with out a better idea of the contents of this manifesto,one has little hope of coming to any conclusions.
But I have to say I am quit perplexed by their use of the "bosses courts",that stinks of opportunism and a lack of principle.what "rebels"...and now the same thing is happening in Quebec and the same players are involved...the courts are playing a part in communist party matters

THese are just impressions I am getting from limited info,but if one asks tha CPC for info one gets silents.So we are left with rumors or bits of info.Would it not be in the parties intrest ,that members and the public clearly undestand what went down concerning these events.To understand the CPC of today one must understand the important events that made the CPC what it is.

Honoré Beaugrand

IP: 67.68.248.142

Jul 18th, 2005 - 10:52 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Let me start the ball rolling. The CPC shut down their inter-net forum was a «Soviet style Czechoslovakian invasion» of the Communist Party of Quebec. Our Québecois membership had strongly protested on the Canadian Party forum our anger provoked by their meddling our Quebec Party's internal affairs. As a result they went and hid in a closet" That is because we made things too hot for them. You are witness; where is their forum now? They cowards, lackeys of her majesty the queen. They have hidden themselves from the Québécois. We, on the other hand, valiant members of the PCQ stand defiant before all proclaiming our resolute desire to be communist and to be free. And our forum is open.

The strongest weapon any political movement has is the truth. The CPC has not had this weapon for a long time. It did not have it back in 1979 when I visited the Soviet Union in the illustrious company of Mr. Figueroa and this deformed socialist illusion fizzled on for another twelve years and then died.

How could the fall proletarian socialism happen? This question burst the little red bubble of window-dressing fat-assed Communists such as Kashtan and Figueroa. How could their little holy sect of most holy monastical communists continue within the environment of ravenous capitalism? Some such as George Hewison tried to deal with this problem but shutting down the Party. They equally made a big mistake. Canadian communists were accustomed to be pure, noble and above all ultra orthodox communists, a kind of communism that nobody took seriously, least of all the Soviet mafia. Canadian communists were not capable of thinking independently back at the beginning of the nineties nor are they yet. In fact they are down right stupid. Look at the current CPC! Their politics is a silly trite game of cut and paste. It is intellectually humiliating.

Let’s talk now about the PCQ (Parti Communiste du Québec). Our party has had a love hate relationship with the CPC over a long period and currently we again find ourselves completely independent of the CPC and in their disfavour. Whoopee! This was not of our own choosing and comes as a result of gross incompetent errors made by the CPC. We would be willing to return to a bi-lateral or even multi-lateral relationship with the CPC at some point but certainly before that time the CPC must get rid of their Mr. Figueroa and Madam Rowley; if not, there is no parley. (I suspect that Figueroa is a police agent)

Get it straight! The PCQ thinks for itself. Armed with Marxism-Leninism it will go out and achieve communism for Quebec. With this communism it will feed its people and contribute to the international struggle. But Quebec communism is not Soviet communism. It is not Canadian Communism. It is not the communism of anybody except our beloved Quebec! Québécois are the most unionized in North America. Fact! Québécois are also the most revolutionary in North America. Fact! And it is a sure bet that we will be the first socialist country in North America. We will no longer be a Canadian colony. Our destiny is to be the guiding light of socialism to all the North American nations.

Dominique

IP: 66.46.71.81

Jul 19th, 2005 - 2:24 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to this debate right now, I'm here to make an announcement.

Well this forum is going down too.
WHAT?
No, no, we're not shutting it down!
But it was planned to be a temporary forum, until we get a better one. And now it's there. This one will remain online for a while, so these discussions won't be lost, but the real forum is here from now on:
http://www.free-phpbb.com/forum/?mforum=communistes

Some sections are password-protected, but not all, and the English one isn't.

dirk

IP: 70.69.104.119

Jul 19th, 2005 - 9:19 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

"Get it straight! The PCQ thinks for itself. Armed with Marxism-Leninism it will go out and achieve communism for Quebec. With this communism it will feed its people and contribute to the international struggle. But Quebec communism is not Soviet communism. It is not Canadian Communism. It is not the communism of anybody except our beloved Quebec! Québécois are the most unionized in North America. Fact! Québécois are also the most revolutionary in North America. Fact! And it is a sure bet that we will be the first socialist country in North America. We will no longer be a Canadian colony. Our destiny is to be the guiding light of socialism to all the North American nations."
------------------------------------------------------
There can be no doubt the the Quebec varity of socialism will be a product of the Quebec social and political miliu.That is basic marxist thought.But the principle of internationalism is also part and parcel of communism.And some where along the line the "anglo-canadian"workers and the Quebecois workers will have to come together in solidarity and consences.AS equals repectful of each others differances etc..On the matter of Quebec independence I believe the leadership of the CPC missed an opportunity to present a new and more indepth understanding of Quebecous nationalism and how it fits in with the revolutionary project.
I also sence that this dispute between the CPC and the PCQ ,has a personel,an controll dynamic to it.Hopefully with time these differances can be mitagated.
THe use of the courts by the leadership of the CPC does cause me doubts and a sence of confusion.I mean using the bourg "justice system" to intervene in CPC internal affairs.The very system we oppose being used by those that stand opposed to it...stinks like opportunism to me.And this is the second time the same members(in similiar circumstances) have used the bourg courts to decided CPC internal disputes..."Lucy got some explaining to" do...my info is limited,but these are my impressions.

dirk

IP: 70.69.104.119

Jul 20th, 2005 - 1:15 AM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?

This differance between the CPC and the PCQ in regards to Quebec independence,has a very similar historical presedent.THat being the independents movement of the Irish during Marx's time.Marx held a very similar view on the Irish struggle within the UK,as the CPC holds today in regards to the Quebec struggle within Canada.I believe this would also be the correct stand that the CPC should take in regards to Quebec.THe stand that they now promote,and that is responsiable for this regret-full split of the CPC,is insuffecient,and does not fully take into consideration the present reality of the situation in Quebec.
I have posted part of an article from "New Socialist":Part 1;"The nationalist challange to marxism",David McNally

"Marx and Engels had originally put little stock in the Irish struggle for independence from Britain. In 1848, for example, they held that Britain’s mass workers’ movement of the time (known as Chartism) would deal with the problem. They saw the Irish question as a fairly minor aspect of the working class struggle in Britain, and they often faulted the Irish nationalists for failing to ally themselves with Chartism. After the decline of Chartism, as anti-Irish sentiment started to play a more and more important role in British politics, and as the Fenian movement for Irish independence surged forward again in the 1860s, Marx’s position changed.

Marx’s argument took the following form. First, he claimed that anti-Irish sentiment, by tying English workers to an identification with their own rulers, was the biggest obstacle to independent working class politics:

The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he feels himself a member of the ruling nation and so turns himself into a tool of the aristocrats and capitalists of his country against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. . . . This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class . . . (Marx and Engels, Ireland and the Irish Question, 293-4)

Second, Marx now argued that the national struggle in Ireland was the key to igniting the workers’ revolution in England. This, he acknowledged, was a reversal of his earlier view:"

galeana garcia

IP: 189.147.40.156

Mar 22nd, 2007 - 4:51 PM

Re: Le PCC ou le PCCC?galean galeana garcia contra patricio medina mierda

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deja de mantener a tu machorra
hierna
galeana garcia
dejala en mierda
grupo aca

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